The Fuzzy Mic
After retiring from a 30-year, major market morning radio career, I'm often asked what I miss the most about the job. I miss 3 C's...camaraderie, creativity but most of all, conversation.
The Fuzzy Mic is built around creativity and conversation to develop camaraderie. The 4 focus areas are: Mental Health, True Crime, Music and Sports.
So, while The Fuzzy Mic allows me to fill some professional voids, it's my sincere hope that maybe you'll find something personally fulfilling in it too.
The Fuzzy Mic
A Beacon of Hope in the Depths of Dependency and Despair
Navigating the stormy seas of mental health and addiction requires a seasoned captain, and Evan Jarschauer has charted these waters like no other. As our honored guest on The Fuzzy Mic, Evan, a beacon of hope in the realm of professional mental health intervention, shares his own tumultuous journey from a childhood overshadowed by divorce and abduction to his current role in guiding families toward healing. His story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and a powerful reminder that even in our darkest moments, transformation is within reach.
This episode peels back the curtain on the delicate art of intervention, revealing the intricate dynamics of addiction, the hidden strength within crises, and the essential role of humor in the healing process. Evan and I engage in a candid conversation about the challenges faced by intervention professionals—challenges that extend far beyond what any AI or online platform can tackle. We delve into the complex relationships within families struggling with substance abuse, discussing the fine line between support and enabling and the profound impact that a united front can have on an individual's path to recovery.
As the conversation winds down, we reflect on the poignant victories and ongoing struggles inherent in dual diagnosis intervention. The joy found in hearing updates from those whose lives have been touched by our work is a beacon that illuminates the often-turbulent path of a therapist.
Welcome to the Fuzzy Mike, the interview series, the podcast, whatever Kevin wants to call it. It's Fuzzy Mike. Hello and thank you for joining me on the Fuzzy Mike, your outlet for interesting and informative conversation on mental health and self-improvement. I'm your host, kevin Kline. I want to briefly take you behind the curtain for a moment so that you get a real feel of my enthusiasm for today's guest.
Speaker 1:You see, I reach out to hundreds of people each month and invite them to be a guest on the show. Now I can usually tell just by the person's credentials if, a I'll even hear back from them and B the chances that they'll actually accept the invitation. The reality is I get just slightly over a 5% response rate and of that 5% I might book two guests. So when I saw the credentials has appeared on Keeping Up With the Kardashians, credentials has appeared on Keeping Up with the Kardashians, abc, NBC, cbs News and the Huffington Post, I gave it a very low possibility that I'd even get a reply from Evan Jarshower, the internationally recognized expert in professional mental health intervention services. And not only did Evan reply, he agreed to join us. So we caught up with him while he was in his car in Miami.
Speaker 2:These are the walls of Wynwood. I'm not familiar with that, yeah, and so it's a um re gentrified um part of Miami that has just taken off, because they've painted the walls with all kinds of amazing murals and, as you can see right here, yeah, that's gorgeous. Yeah, so all the walls are done like that. So I just happened to be in Miami on an assignment and this is where I am. So this is why I am where I am.
Speaker 1:Very cool. I appreciate you joining me. I want to start off by giving you a very sincere compliment, if you don't mind, sir. Sure, Sure, Okay. I have watched and interviewed numerous therapists psychiatrists, psychologists. I've gone to several and I think you are one of, if not the most sincere therapists that I've come across.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, yeah Well thank you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:I've had two psychiatrists that were just in it for a paycheck. I see one now who reminds me a lot of you, and you remind me a lot of him and I. That leads me to my first question is where does this compassion and you come from?
Speaker 2:So first let me just say what I, what I do, what I am, and then I'll get into that, if I may, Please. So yeah, so I am a professional behavioral health interventionist and I help families that have loved ones, and I'm also a licensed psychotherapist and I help families that have loved ones battling mental health issues and oftentimes in conjunction with some type of substance abuse disorder, who are resisting care and in many cases that they're so psychiatrically or psychologically compromised that by the nature of their illness they're not able to recognize they have a problem in the first place. So I work with their families and then ultimately work with them to help get those people into a program for care, and then I also then work with the families to help support them in the process of their loved ones recovery. So that's what I do.
Speaker 2:As far as you know where that comes from, I think that everyone is impacted by their childhood, where they come from. And for me, you know I had a very challenged challenge I don't know if that's the right word, but complicated childhood where my parents got divorced. I was really young, my father didn't want to allow, or my father felt that I should be with him, and this was back in like the mid 70s when, you know, dads didn't necessarily get the custody or strong visitation rights and my dad ended up taking me away and for for quite some time. And I think that separation from my mom, that kind of living on like a refugee kind of a you know undercover kind of thing, really wanting to be able to have that healthy family dynamic. So for me there is kind of a mission in there where I see myself being able to help families that are the need to heal and need to come together and I use a lot of my own pathology and my own experience to help do that.
Speaker 2:And well, yeah, that's pretty much the foundation of, I guess, the work that I do. And for me, there's no question, there's plenty of addiction stuff inside my brain and my body, my spirit. So for me I guess there is a certain level of addiction to seeing to the work that I do. It can be very exciting, very emotionally, professionally rewarding, and I'm not too good with downtime. So that's my deal. That's pretty much where I come from, basically, and kind of what made me want to or drove me into this direction of this work that I do.
Speaker 1:How many people do you think obviously it's going to be an estimate but have had a childhood trauma in their life percentage?
Speaker 2:It's got to be. It's going to be high.
Speaker 1:Isn't it though, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's high and I think it's also relative to you. Know how you define trauma, but you know death, divorce, um abuse on multiple levels, um abduction, you know abduction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean most people don't get abducted. I would say most people don't, but I think that, at least in my world, it's definitely extremely high, a high percentage and for sure that then you know, kind of sets it impacts people at the young age, at a young age. It impacts people at the young age, at a young age, and it sometimes will set the course for who they end up evolve, evolve into emotionally as an adult. And so a lot of times I'm working with people that might have been good for a long, long time and then some event occurs and it kind of like rehashes some childhood something, adolescent something, and then oftentimes, if not properly treated, you know, people can spiral and I come in. Usually I'm coming in towards the middle, the end of a spiraling situation and my job is to help, kind of help people come out of free fall, get them stabilized and then help set a course for um recovery.
Speaker 1:That's, that's my job so how can that trauma lay dormant for so many years and then something triggers it because if it's laying dormant, it's way in the back of your subconscious and then something triggers it and it manifests itself and comes out. How does that happen?
Speaker 2:well, that's a great question.
Speaker 2:And, um, I think I'll give you an example, and without even getting too political, but it's like I think that just recently, even with, like the, the covid or the corona thing, uh, the pandemic, right, I don't want to, I don't want to undermine, I don't want to call it a thing, I don't want to undermine what it was and what it is, but I think there's no question that, um, you know that event, uh, for sure, um was kind of like a uh earthquake in the middle of the ocean of the Pacific, where, you know, on the mainland you don't feel it, but it starts that wave and that wave grows and it grows, and it grows and before you know it, it overtakes the town, right, and I think that, for example, something where we believe that we're safe, we believe that, you know, for 9-11, we believe that we're the safest place in the whole wide world, you know, we believe we're immune from global pandemics, and then something that happens and it shatters, it rattles the core of society.
Speaker 2:It shatters, it rattles the core of society. And, you know, if you had something inside you, for sure that would be a major trigger that would kind of flip the switch back on to something that might have been previously embedded deep within I don't want to get too deep here, but deeply embedded within your psyche, within your psychological makeup.
Speaker 1:You're going through life like you think you're perfectly well adjusted and then all of a sudden, just shit happens and you just spiral out of control.
Speaker 2:Correct, and I'm seeing that along with my team. By the way, my organization is called Behavioral Help Solutions, which is behavioralhelpcom, but we're seeing this all over the country. We work all over the country from California. Where are you based?
Speaker 1:by the way, I'm based in Missouri.
Speaker 2:So from St Louis.
Speaker 1:I'm originally from St Louis, but I'm living in rural Missouri and Springfield.
Speaker 2:Now I'm originally from St Louis, but I'm living in rural Missouri and Springfield.
Speaker 2:Now, from Springfield to St Louis, to Madison to Minneapolis, all over the country, we're seeing a unraveling of so many people that you know were good fundamentally, uh, together I'm using just simple terms together for a long, long time and may have had some underlying traumatic issue or something and that was never fully processed work through and for sure, um, it's coming back now, um, um, and we've've, like I said, we've seen our world explode exponentially, and not only that, but even people that didn't necessarily have that underlying traumatic event having various traumas earlier in life could almost serve as a vaccine against future traumas because your body or your mind would have potentially adjusted. So people that never have actually experienced any type of traumatic event coming into something like a global pandemic for sure shocked the system for a lot of people. So, whether you had some type of underlying traumatic event prior or that was the traumatic event, there's no question that it has impacted I couldn't even get I mean countless multitudes of people all over the country and all over the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was really surprised when I read on Behavioral Health Solutions that you have said that COVID has grown your workload tremendously. I would have thought that would have come from your high-profile intervention with Kim Kardashian Did you see the amounts of boxes she had. That's just not a normal scenario, is that?
Speaker 2:the guy. Hello, hi, how are you Courtney? Hey Courtney, nice to meet you, nice to meet you Thanks for coming.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, but COVID really was the thing that elevated your workload.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think that you know when I so, you know, with the Kardashians, that's something for sure. That was an amazing opportunity and you know it definitely connected me with a lot of people that I can't talked about, but through that for sure it helped me interconnect with a lot of people and then from there, more people, more people. But at the end of the day, you know, I work in a very small pool of professionals that are licensed mental health counselors, that actually do this work in the field, because we don't have, you know, this is where the office is a psychiatric, sometimes a psych hospital. Our office is sometimes on the streets of Dallas, it's in a casino floor. In Vegas, it's in a beautiful chalet in Aspen, it's on the mean streets of you name the city, from Baltimore to Newark, and we're going into homes, we're going to closets, garages, even up into trees when people are trying to get away from situations that they believe are happening on the ground. So they'll actually go up into the tree and we have to kind of help them get down sometimes.
Speaker 1:So your answer right, there is pretty much. I probably don't even need to ask this question, but I will because because of COVID, but can an intervention happen online?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good, that's a really good question. And, um, you know, part of the reason that I've been able to do this now you know, being in the field for over two decades, right Is I've learned that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, for every opinion there's a counter opinion. And I've learned the more that I'm able to embrace other people's perspectives, the more I'm able to help people with my orientation. So, as far as my belief, as far as my orientation goes, my work is very hands-on, it's, it's gritty, it's in the trenches and, like I said, there's something about that that drives me. I'm driven to that particular type of work.
Speaker 2:Not everybody can stomach that because you're literally, you know I'm always in very tense, complex, complicated real life situations. So, you know, I think that for me, I need the tactile experience I'll talk about me. I need to be able to have that eye-eye contact. And this is no disrespect to people that believe that certain intervention work can be done online. I don't think that my work can be done by artificial intelligence, although there's a lot of artificial intelligence out there and it's growing and it's exploding in nature. But I think, with my work, it's about quick decisions in the field, putting out complicated interpersonal fires and ultimately getting people the help that they need. So I don't see the online intervention from my perspective. But perhaps for mothers, depending upon the level of intensity of care, maybe it's different. That's my politically appropriate answer.
Speaker 1:No, and it's perfectly valid and you're right. You know, some people see tomato, some people say tomato. I get what we're saying here, but I would think mental health diagnosis and stuff like that, I think we could do that online. I don't think something as severe as an intervention could happen without the personal contact.
Speaker 2:I believe that that's what I believe. I believe it's a critical element. But another person could argue the point that you can have that personal something you know online and there's more and more technology to do that, but, but I, there's no, there is no, there is no a substitute for that human interconnectedness when you're there. And I think also for the person that's going to get help, that's resistant and denial, unable to see for themselves and really feel the experience. Having somebody there like myself, that third party professional, the empathetic third party professional, I'm very confident that makes a huge difference in the presentation and the understanding because at the end of the day, if I wasn't there and the person battling severe postpartum depression or postpartum mania or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, manic, depressed or compulsive behavior, they could just walk over to the computer and just close it.
Speaker 2:Turn it right off or pull the plug out. Now what? Now, what do you do? And so I can't be closed, my power cord can't be pulled out. But that begs the question because you are hands on and situations that could very easily turn into a very bad, bad situation For me.
Speaker 2:Every single one of my cases has that potential, and how I work to carefully mitigate the risk, the danger, is a critical element of the work that I do. So that's why and I also work in a very litigious environment as well litigious environment as well I also work in an environment where me going out to help people, you know some it's delicate because you know you're also walking into people's personal lives and complicated stories and issues that potentially will put you in the firing, in the line of fire. That potentially will put you in the firing, in the line of fire. So what I've learned? To be very careful, even with a question like that. Um, it's so. The simple answer to your question is that there isn't a case that I've had. I don't have any cases where there is no potential for things to get.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, Legally you have to say that. I get that. But if you talk to a police officer, they say that the worst thing to do is have to go to a domestic situation. You're going to a domestic situation every time.
Speaker 2:So it's very, very challenging, I will. You know, here's some key, you know keywords weapons, physical violence, bodily fluids, yeah, cutlery. There's a lot of things you got to be conscious of, even when you're, even when you're working with somebody who has, um, various, uh, black belts in different martial arts and they are battling some type of mental issue. You know, um also, I will help. One thing that I think is a critical part of the work that I do now that we're just kind of getting into that a little bit, is you just have to turn on the TV.
Speaker 2:Almost every week, at least once a week, there's a case where a family, a mother, a father, even sometimes the person in crisis, calls 911 because their loved one's having some type of episode. The law enforcement comes in and we need our law enforcement and I love our law enforcement. Law enforcement comes in. There's no buddy there to kind of manage that individual. The law enforcement officer has as much mental health training as they can possibly have, but they also have a responsibility to protect themselves and others, to protect themselves and others, and so you see those cases. All the time where law enforcement is called, they come in, and just recently there was one where you hear the mom scream crying please don't kill my son, please don't kill my son. And unfortunately her son was killed by law enforcement.
Speaker 2:And I will say that in my cases, safety is always a critical element of the work that I do and, like I said, trying to mitigate the risk as much as possible, but in all my cases there's there's there is quite a bit of risk. When you're dealing with somebody who is having an episode out of control requires help. Families oftentimes have tried to handle this themselves and one of the fears they have is calling for help because they see things can go really, really haywire very easily, very easily. So the answer to your question is I'm always walking into situations where the risk is high and the need to be able to carefully mitigate risk danger is always and maximize safety is always a critical element of the work that I do.
Speaker 1:I'm talking with Evan Jarschauer. You can go to evan at behavioralhelpcom. A lot of questions that can be unraveled from that answer that you just gave. I'll start with the one that's first and foremost on my mind Are police as equipped as they could be, or should be, to deal with mental health crises?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great another great question, and you know it's so complicated because, at the end of the day, you know someone law enforcement.
Speaker 2:I think their job is to enforce the law right, but there's no question that more and more it's being intertwined with also understanding mental health law and dealing with people that have mental health issues. I think that I can't speak on behalf of how law enforcement agencies are funded or should be funded, but there's no question that every single law enforcement agent that is in the field, if possible, should receive some level of training in dealing with working with people with mental health issues, especially people with mental health issues who are escalated. So I can only tell you that what I've learned through the years is that level of training is also, in many cases, limited to the resources available to provide that training, and so, at the end of the day, it's just not a perfect system, law enforcement agencies requiring some level of mental health training for their personnel. I'm seeing that definitely on a rise, even where there are certain classifications of law enforcement agents that do have that specialized training. But I think, without question, more is needed.
Speaker 1:My psychiatrist told me a long time ago 20% of the population is on some sort of mental health medication, 80% needs to be.
Speaker 2:That sounds like it could make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, you go to an intervention, you've been called to an intervention, you sit down, you meet with the family. Is there ever a time where, because an intervention is because somebody loves and cares about the person who's destroying themselves correct, yes, that's correct. You go there to talk to a person who's addicted, okay, yep, with this person, you find out that the mom or the dad or the brother or sister is the one who's enabling this behavior, and so you literally have to turn your attention to this person who's giving them the go ahead, the drugs, the money, whatever, and say you know what? This is an intervention for two people, not just one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's all the time. Absolutely, really yeah, all the time, because at the end of the day, you know the how long somebody stays sick is also interconnected with how the people that surround that individual handle the situation. There's definitely a correlation between the two, and so, in many cases, I'm working on a case where a family member would rather provide booze or dope to somebody instead of having them out on the street and buying it, and you know, from somebody who could end up hurting them. I have that all the time, and you know. So. What I've learned over the years is this that I've actually stayed away from the term enabling. Okay, and I'll tell you the reason why, please. So I don't know if you have any kids or nephews or family, I'm assuming maybe you do.
Speaker 1:I've got nieces and nephews, no kids of my own.
Speaker 2:That's fine. Let's go with some of those nieces and nephews no, kids of my own, that's fine. Let's go with some of those nieces and nephews. And one of those was struggling. Your instinct kicks in to help. Now, how you, how that, how what drives that instinct? That's the challenge. So, at the end of the day, rather than enabling, it's more of instinct.
Speaker 2:My loved one is suffering. I'm going to help, and that's for me oftentimes a challenge, because that help sometimes means that they're giving them dope or giving them money and turning away, you know, letting them stay in the home and using, because the argument is I would rather them be in my home and use than be on the streets and end up dead. I'd rather be able to keep an eye on them. So I don't. I kind of stay away from the enabling thing and look at it more in terms of I get it. You love your son, your daughter, your husband, your wife, your cousin, your niece, your nephew, and so therefore, you're trying to keep them safe, yeah, and you're trying to mitigate the, the, the dangers, the dangers, the problem. The problem with that, unfortunately, is you're also perpetuating the underlying disease or issue, or addiction or um, by providing them the wherewithal and the resources to continue to use. Yeah, so there is that level of educating, um and really trying to. It's almost like the art of war, but in a very loving, supportive, therapeutic perspective. The best way to get rid of your enemy is to make them your friend.
Speaker 2:Now, I don't know if you wrote that, but I'm sure in some of his writings he wrote that, but I'm sure in some of his writings it's in there somewhere. And so what I've learned to do is, rather than say, what are you doing? How, why are you I never use the word why why are you giving him 50 bucks a week? Why are you letting him stay in the house? I get it, I get. You want them safe.
Speaker 2:You don't want to see him the needles safe. You don't want to see him the needles. You don't want to see him use dirty needles. You don't want them to have her to have a debt on the street. You don't want to have.
Speaker 2:You don't want to see them sell themselves so that they can get a fix, and for that reason this is what you're doing. Let's find a way to work around that and because, unfortunately, you may end up finding them cold anyway, you might find you may lose them anyway, yeah, so if you're going to go down, let's go down with a fight and let's work together and find some solutions where we increase the probability that we'll get them the help that they need, we'll mitigate the resistance and ultimately we'll help them get on to the road to recovery. Because the people that because they depend on you to help guide them and support them to get better, they need you to kind of lead the way and lead the charge. So if they see that you're giving in to the sick part of their being, then unfortunately my hands are kind of tied.
Speaker 1:That answer sounds to me like an intervention is just not a one time visit. There should be, or could be, multiple visits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, there's multiple contacts for sure, OK there, there, there may typically, I have you know, there's multiple contacts, for sure there may.
Speaker 2:typically, I have you know, there's the pre-intervention, which is the physical on the ground with the family and the loved ones, co-workers, and then the in support of the intervention. But at the end of the day, there are multiple Zoom calls, conference calls. We are prior and after the intervention to deal with the issues team to support the objective of seeing their loved one not only go to get help but really create a unified support system to help increase the probability that they will be compliant with care post-treatment. So yeah, I do that all the time.
Speaker 1:What would you call the person that is the subject of the intervention?
Speaker 2:We call them the identified person. I stay away from the term patient because I'm really I'm really not providing therapeutic services. Okay, I'm providing a more of a consultant, um, uh, as opposed to a uh, a therapist, because we really want that individual to receive the therapeutic services in the program or with the providers that are, you know, that are selected for their care. So we call them the identified person.
Speaker 1:How many of the identified persons that you've worked with actually know or realize they have a problem?
Speaker 2:I would say, by the time that I'm called in. All of them, really, yeah, all of them. But to further your question, I think it's out of all the people that you go to help, how many are willing to admit that they have a problem? How many are willing?
Speaker 1:to admit that they have a problem? Yeah, that's the question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's that changes the, that changes the numbers considerably, because they all know there's a problem they all have, they all know that there's a problem and I think that's when the numbers go down significantly. You know, we might be in the. It's a very low number of the people that you know, very low number of people that I get in there and they go like this Wow, I'm so glad you came, because I have a problem and you know I was kind of stuck and I'm glad you're here to help my family get unstuck and help me and kind of guide this through. It's a very, it's a very, very low number. Every so often I do, and it's wonderful when that happens, but most of the time it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Most of the time, you know, you know, a lot of times I hear the statement from the person I'm going to get help, you know, don't you know? Don't you know that nobody is going to go get help until they're ready to go get help, and and then I channel Tommy Lee Jones in the fugitive. Now, now I got to be real careful with this because I cannot say this in a disrespectful manner. This is going to be said in a very respectful manner. So when a family member or a friend or even an identified person says you know, you're just wasting my family's time, energy, money and all that stuff, you got paid right like that I did and we're going to get you help. So, for example, in the movie the fugitive if you did, you see it. Oh yeah, okay. So tom lee jones is chasing dr richard kimball and they're in this like aqueduct thing by a dam right yep and uh timely jones's weapon.
Speaker 2:He's a federal marshal, hardcore federal marshal, don't mess with him. He's smart, he's like and he's running after, and, um, his uh, sidearm falls out. And who picks it up? But Dr Richard Kimball. Dr Richard Kimball is standing in front of the opening of the, the, the dam from the aqueduct, and he points the gun, the weapon, at the federal marshal played by Tom Lee Jones and he says remember what he said. I didn't kill my wife.
Speaker 2:And then, with his hands up in the air, what did Tom Lee Jones say to Dr Richard Kimball? I don't care, he did not mean that in a disrespectful manner. He wasn't trying to be cocky or belligerent. His message to Dr Richard Kimball was listen, I'm here to see that justice is served. I'm not here to judge you. I'm not here to be your judge, jury, whatever. I just want to make sure, at the end of the day, that I get my man safely back to the system you know, and they can go ahead and process and figure this out. I'm not, I don't mean you any disrespect, dr Richard Kimball, but you're going to, but I am going to get you and you're going to come with me and if not, you're going to have to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2:It was a calculated arrest that the federal marshal took, at which point dr richard kimball ends up dropping the weapon because he could shoot him. And what did that? What did he end up doing, quote unquote. According to the federal marshal, it did a peter pan off of this aqueduct, yeah, anyway. So at the end of the day, um, you know, I have many cases where the person will say they're not going to get help until the family, friends, or the person says they're not going to get help until I'm ready, oriented towards who I am as a person, rather than you have to spend another decade of establishing a more robust bottom, let's get you some help right now.
Speaker 2:I hear you I'm not judging you At the end of the day, um, you are suffering, you know that, and as far as you believing that you need more time to suffer, um, I can't, I can't let, I can't, just can't let you do that. Yeah, and I'm gonna help get you some help to do that. Yeah, and I'm going to help get you some help. So, for that reason, I'm going to keep going until we get you some help. That's the, that's kind of the orientation that I have, okay.
Speaker 1:And, of the identified persons that you work with, how many of them are surprised to see you and how many of them are not surprised to see you?
Speaker 2:Well, it depends on the case. It really depends on it. I don't have a number for you on that, but I can definitely say that even when somebody appears surprised, are you that surprised that your mother or your father or your husband or your wife couldn't watch you hurt yourself any further? How many cries for help? I mean, at the end of the day you were crying for help left and right. I'm, I'm just the um, I'm the manifestation of your cries. So maybe you're surprised to see my face. I know it's not that pretty, but at the end of the day, I don't think you're so surprised that your family and the people that love you the most they don't love me Okay, the people that are around you that they wanted to see that you got some help and they didn't want to wait another day, not another night, not another horrible phone call from some state trooper.
Speaker 2:They want to see that you get help today because they love you and they feel that you deserve it, and they deserve it too. They deserve the opportunity to have this amazing, healthy relationship with you, so that your kids can have a parent, so that your brother can have his brother, your mother can have the mom can have a parent, so that your brother can have his brother, your mother can have the mom can have a relationship with her children, her husband. So I'm here because this is, at the end of the day, what you've been crying out for. That's when the person goes Shut up or they go, or they go. Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2:I very rarely have a case when I very rarely have a case where someone is like everything was just great, everything was wonderful, and I have no conceptualization at all of your purpose for being here. I don't ever have those cases. Wow, there's always. Even in the mental health cases you you still have, there's still an understanding that things aren't so good and you're here because there's a problem. I don't have those cases where you know what this is. Wow, I'm shocked. I don't have those.
Speaker 1:Well, that's funny because I'm equating this particular part of the conversation to what John Mulaney said about his own intervention. So you come to the intervention, you go through the whole thing you don't know, it's an intervention when you come to it. Right, I thought it was dinner with two friends from college.
Speaker 2:Right, it was not, it was not.
Speaker 1:And you were like two hours late for that dinner. I was two hours late for that dinner, but an intervention for me and I'm thinking I don't need this.
Speaker 2:At first that's what his answer was. Sure, I get it, I get it. But upon further reflection I'm confident. He was like OK, yeah, I don't have any. I don't have any cases where the person goes like wow, this is perfect timing, doesn't happen, does not happen how much does humor play?
Speaker 1:uh, how much can humor play into our recovery, our development, mentally I mean, because melanie's just made a whole act out of it now and that's the way I deal with my childhood trauma is through comedy. How much can humor play a role in our, in our healing?
Speaker 2:uh, another delicate question because, um, what you're seeing is like over two decades of my evolution as a practitioner, right Of an interventionist. And so, at the end of the day, um, being able to use my own warped of humor, I believe, is an essential component of me being able to keep my sanity and keep it together under some of the most stressful, complex, complicated situations. But I've also learned that not everybody has a warped sense of humor and not everybody, not everybody, appreciates my sense of humor. But I've learned how to kind of gauge it and to try to find the lighter moments that that seem more universal in nature, and I think that if it was all just pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, I think that that would just eventually make everything just that much more tense and more tense, pressure filled. So I've used, I've learned to be able to use levity, not in a demeaning or demoralizing, you know, manner, but more so the humanness of the experience and being able to take a very complicated, uncomfortable, tense situation and, you know, be able to kind of shed some light on that moment.
Speaker 2:The person says, for example, you know, um, you know before, I need to think about this, I need to go grab something you know to eat before, so I can think about this and I go. You know I'm I'm starving too, man, let's go grab a bite and the family's like what you know. That's just kind of a simple example. But being able to use, use that lighter side, join the person in their experience and be human, I think that's a critical element of making this whole, at least my world, work. If not, it would all just be intensity, intensity, intensity, no release and just a real combative, complex air. And I try to use my levity, my humor, to kind of let a little bit of that tension out, delicately and thoughtfully in the process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's got to be a delicate situation because humor and entertainment is so subjective it's probably the most subjective thing on the planet and if you think something's funny, nine out of 10 might not think it's funny, and so you know. Yeah, it's a balance that you got to tightrope. Is there one addiction that's worse than another?
Speaker 2:You know, I think for me there is no there there that are. There is not one. That I find is easier. But but I will say this sometimes the addictions to substances that are legal or prescribed by a physician, those can be some of the more challenging because oftentimes the identified person would say it's legal or it's prescribed by my physician. So how is this bad? I'm using it as prescribed, but you're also maybe drinking along with the medication, or you're using two different medications together that are counter affecting each other. But those are some of the most difficult ones. I'll give you an example Nicotine super super. You know I don't get called in for interventions for nicotine, but it's definitely from. You know, it's super hard addiction to break. Alcohol, it's everywhere. So for the person that's trying to so you have somebody who has a cocaine addiction or a gambling addiction no, yeah, they would have the hardest time staying, I'm sorry, hardest time staying away from alcohol. You can stay away from casinos, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can stay away from Coke dealers, but it's really, really hard to stay away from alcohol when it's in supermarkets.
Speaker 1:How has the legalization of marijuana affected the caseload.
Speaker 2:Right. So where my world really began to explode, it wasn't COVID. It was when weed began, the decriminalization, the destigmatization not being a stigma anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, without question, weed is the number one drug, intersected, interconnected, intertwined, in my work, for sure, and that is, you know, at the end of the day, there's no, there's no argument. I don't think it's, I don't think you can make an argument that weed doesn't have medicinal qualities. There are medicinal qualities with weed, absolutely, and for some people it is a wonder drug, wonder medication, wonder ointment. The problem is that for a lot of people that have other underlying mental health issues, weed is like a switch and it turns on a dragon, like a fire, a fire breathing dragon that you had deeply embedded within your brain and it lets it loose. And so, and that's, if you're just taking whatever is prescribed to you, whatever edible, whatever, uh, you're smoking, at the end of the day, um, that's probably, like I said, the number one challenging substance of uh substance use issue that's affecting people's mental health. Um, and and also I'm seeing a lot of that, where they're not abusing it, it's just the dose that you take. It may just be enough to significantly impact your thinking and impair your, uh, your moods, um, and I'm seeing that left and right.
Speaker 2:The challenging thing with weed is that there's such a um social component with with smoking weed or consuming edibles.
Speaker 2:It is kind of a there's a societal shift. There's a societal shift where it's um, it's accepted, it's cool, it's in, and to not be able to smoke weed it's kind of like back in the day when people would have business meetings and having a few drinks was part of the business meeting. Right Today, and I guess current social or corporate culture with regard to drinking, they've got policies on drinking and policies on drinking with in a business meeting, but I think that weed has become such an accepted part of you know, uh, society with culture and so, for that reason, if you're not, if you're the one that can't smoke weed, it's almost like in many cases at least the feedback I'm getting as well you can't fit in. Yeah, and that's can, that's, that can be socially debilitating and make you awkward. Um, it's kind of like going, it's like, it's almost like. The analogy would be the kid with diabetes going to the birthday party and can't have the cake right um, it's not that the cake is going to well.
Speaker 2:The cake could kill you, Right? But the weed may not kill you, but your behaviors associated with your consumption of that might put you and everyone around you in jeopardy. So that's kind of what's happening with the weed scene, at least from what I'm seeing.
Speaker 1:Is there such a thing as a healthy addiction?
Speaker 2:In my. I think that anything and this is you know. I'll make a simple statement first. I think anything to an excess is no good. It's not good, not safe, not healthy.
Speaker 2:But I think that so many of the amazing things that we've all, all the technological accomplishments, all the amazing things that have been done by people in the arts and technology, you know, by somebody that had a passion and maybe was addicted to whatever their passion was and they couldn't stop doing it and that drove them that like that. So I think that I think, if it's something that takes you away from being able to live a productive, happy, healthy life, then I think yeah, then I think it would be a bad thing. But I think if you're addicted to like I'm addicted to this work, I'll admit it, I love it. I love this, the feeling of getting that call, you know, going out to help the family crisis, being able to establish order, get people help, you know it's. It really is a very cool feeling, on top of the fact that what I do to provide my family. So I'm a lucky, very lucky guy there.
Speaker 1:The other thing, too, that I heard you say before is that your line of work actually helps you with your own mental stability.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely Without, without question. Um, like I said before, I'm not so good with downtime Uh, it's, you know. And so, without question this, it's not that I feel better when I see people not doing well, that's not the case at all. It's that, for me, that sense of purpose really helps my mental health, helps me with feelings of depression or anxiety. It really helps me stay level that I know that I'm actually a productive, engaging participant in making a difference. So there's a very, there's a huge sense of connectedness with that work that I do and helping me maintain my emotional equilibrium.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, in a way, because I'm walking into situations that are like out of control sometimes and people will look at me and say what's wrong with you? Why is this guy? Well, he's that way because it's really not his family. That's not necessarily the case. It's just more so that I am in that moment, really feeling how it's kind of like in many ways. Do you ever see those um I'll use another movie reference um, and this is not about me killing people, okay, so don't think that. Why would you even say that? But uh, but no, but, like in the equalizer movies, withzel, who I love as he, or even the Bourne identity. Like Jason Bourne, Right.
Speaker 2:When he walks into a room he's calculating. You know he's looking looking at the doors, looking at this, checking this, out the angles, because he has a plan. His plan is dangerous and you know like they're gonna fight and stuff. You know jiu-jitsu but, um, you know, I, in many ways, as I'm in the situation, I'm also looking at the various. Sometimes I am looking at the exits but, um, you know, I'm looking at the different scenarios and different people and how I can best move things around to achieve the goal, ultimate goal, of helping this person and doing in the most loving, supportive and comprehensive way. I don't know what your question was, but I felt good.
Speaker 1:No, I was talking about how your own mental stability is helped by yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that keeps. That helps me keep my head together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that keeps. That helps me keep my head together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the same thing with me hosting this podcast that now has a significant concentration on mental health and personal development. I mean, I've, I've been seeing psychiatrists since 1995, evan, and so, yeah, you would think that I would be an expert, but I, brother, I got to tell you. Man, going back to the very first thing that we talked about in this conversation, uh, you made a light go off for me, and you made a light go off for me One of the cool things that I read about you and we've been talking about interventions, because that's what Evan Jarschauer does, uh, along with, uh, mental health, uh therapy, but it doesn't need to be an addiction that can require an intervention. You can do it for mental illness, you can do it for chronic depression, you can actually do it to help offset school violence and in mass shootings.
Speaker 2:That's a great question and I think that I've had, I've had a lot of cases where, had somebody stayed on the trajectory, they were on, they might have been a good candidate for somebody that might have done something like that, wow. So yeah, absolutely I've never had an intervention per se where it was somebody who was, you know, shooting up schools, yeah, but but for sure I've had many cases where there were people that had they continued on in the trajectory, they were on with their compulsive behaviors, with their delusions. Something bad could have happened, like that. We'll never know, hopefully we'll never. We'll never know, hopefully we'll never. But but for sure you know, like I said, I specialize in the dual diagnosis intervention or the even just a straight mental health intervention.
Speaker 2:But the dual diagnosis intervention where somebody is dealing with some underlying mental health issue depression, anxiety, severe mood swings, ptsd and they are oftentimes self-medicating with some type of mood-altering substance, whether it's in to help manage, deal with, coordinate, facilitate the person from where they are out of control in crisis, establish order, help them get help and work with the family to support that process moving forward. That's my job.
Speaker 1:How many of your prior cases actually keep in touch with you and tell you about their progress?
Speaker 2:You know it varies. I can't, I couldn't give you a specific number on that, but a lot do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot do and it comes in different waves, in different stages. So you know, I might not hear from somebody for quite some time and then I'll get a text message, um, for example. Hey, evan, just want to let you know, um, I just finished college and but wait, I still think you're a two headed snake. But I want to thank you. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Really oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I get those every so often, you know. Or or the family will say you know what she's doing, great, she, she's back with the kids and you know I get those. So those are you know, but they, they, they get peppered in with my. Sometimes, in some of my most difficult, challenging days, I'll get a, a text message. You, in some of my most difficult, challenging days, I'll get a text message, you know, and I'm like, okay, I can make it, you know, it helps. Those really do help. By the way, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, they definitely help. Oh, for sure that's got to be the most satisfying part of your work, Super, yeah. Well, you know what man, I have had a blast talking to you. Well, you know what man, I have had a blast talking to you. I knew this was going to be an awesome conversation and I can't thank you enough for getting back with me and saying that you'd be available, because I honestly didn't think you would be given your credentials with. You know all the ABC, nbc, cbs News, huffington Post, kardashians, which we didn't even really talk about. Is shopping a real addiction?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, when at that time when you are, you know you are well exceeding your income. However, in that particular case, the end of the day, the income exploded. Yeah, so you know, but absolutely it is for families where especially well, I can go on and on, but there's the answer, simple answer is yes, if it affects people's ability to provide for their families, if it becomes something that's consuming a bulk of their time, for sure it can be a real deal addiction.
Speaker 1:Hey, how can people get in touch with you, evan, at behavioral helpcom?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my email. Evan at behavioral help. It's help, not health. Evan at behavioral helpcom. Um, and then you can find me there. We've got a bunch of social media stuff and um, but that's probably the easiest way to find me.
Speaker 1:Also, uh, go to life hackcom and you can read 13,. Uh, and you can read 13 articles that Evan has written, each one more fascinating and more helpful than the next.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, brother.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:If you're seeing a mental health provider and you go into the office and the visit goes something like this your blood pressure looks good, you must be feeling better, right? Yeah, things are good right now. Good, see you in another 16 weeks. Then it's time to find someone like Evan. I mentioned earlier in the conversation that Evan reminded me of my psychiatrist, now Derek, and that there's actual sincerity and genuine concern from them. Even when I've been on a run of stability and lower depression, derek still asks me questions about my life. Run of stability and lower depression Derek still asks me questions about my life. He wants to know what's happening in the good times as well as in the bad times. In fact, I'm not going to lie, I see him taking more notes during the uneventful visits than he does when there are actually issues to discuss. That's the kind of person you're looking for when you're searching for a therapist. That's the kind of person you're looking for when you're searching for a therapist. My thanks to Evan for joining us Again. You can reach out to Evan at Evan E-V-A-N. At BehavioralHelpcom BehavioralHelpcom H-E-L-P. My thanks again to you for listening.
Speaker 1:My weekly request is this that you like, follow, subscribe, rate and share the fuzzy mic to help grow the numbers of people that we can help. We're all in this fight together. Nobody fights alone. If laughter is your favorite kind of medicine, well then check out the Tuttle Kline podcast, where my longtime radio partner, tim Tuttle, and I well, we've teamed up to give you the style of show we did behind the scenes during our 25 years together on commercial radio. Parameters, none Filters, none Laughs. Well, plenty. New episodes post every Wednesday. The Fuzzy Mic is hosted and produced by Kevin Klein, production elements by Zach Sheish at the Radio Farm. Social media director is Trish Klein. I'd love to hear from you Suggestions, comments or even ideas for the show. Email thefuzzymic at gmailcom. See you next Tuesday and thank you again for being here. I don't know why I look at the microphone. It's not like you're there. You're there, I'm an idiot. That's it for the Fuzzy Mic. Thank you. The Fuzzy Mike with Kevin Kline.